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Post by Beldar on Feb 18, 2009 15:43:42 GMT -5
Kaedrin's web pages says: I propose a discussion about enabling it. I like it. Although it may be a bit OP, it does open up some interesting possibilities. An eldritch glaive warlock with high bab for 10 levels would be pretty cool. I am sure there are some potentially abusive cleric builds to be found (but then there already are many abusive cleric builds). What does anyone else think? Here is a link to Kaedrin's class description for your viewing convenience: nwn2customcontent.wikidot.com/knight-of-tierdrial
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Post by Loudent2 on Feb 18, 2009 15:58:27 GMT -5
a High BAB 10/10 progression class with no drawbacks. I'm as much a powergamer as everyone else but, seriously?
If it were possible to just enable it for warlocks assasins and avengers and maybe bards then I would probably put it in.
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Post by nicethugbert on Feb 18, 2009 17:46:42 GMT -5
All I wanted was epic levels for EKs.
EDIT: LOL, Tierdrial is awefully close in spelling to Tierdael from Diablo 2.
EDIT 2: Why not for Druids or Spirit Shaman? With Divine Power/Favor(always confuse the 2) does it matter if clerics get KoT?
Hehe, I suspect that Kaedrin did this to piss off all the people who harassed him via email about Knight Phantom with "OMG OVERPOWERED".
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Post by Loudent2 on Feb 18, 2009 18:41:48 GMT -5
EDIT 2: Why not for Druids or Spirit Shaman? With Divine Power/Favor(always confuse the 2) does it matter if clerics get KoT? Because spells can be dispelled. I'm not sure people understand how drastically anti-magic changes the landscape. While it will be certainly possible to level to 30 avoiding anti-magic, The major loot locations and end game material will be likely rife with it. This impacts all casters, not just Gishes I think High BAB/spell-caster progression would likely dominate the next generation of characters.
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Post by nicethugbert on Feb 18, 2009 18:49:25 GMT -5
Now I see why you wanted to make a Divine Favor/Power spell for druids. I'll wait to see how the situation shakes out then.
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Post by shoujo on Feb 18, 2009 18:52:25 GMT -5
Hm, the main drawbacks I see are spellcasting prodigy (luck of heroes works better for battle clerics) and dodge (requires 13 dex when a mith FP build only needs 10). I don't see the big deal really.
For farming an anti-magic boss, I wouldn't even bother with a cleric, high BAB or otherwise. It'll just be safer and quicker to make a boss farming mage and hit from range.
Edit: Now that I think of it, why would you even use a cleric to farm anti-magic bosses? Heal pots can do the job and in an anti-magic aura, a RDD/DwD, swiftblade, divine shield/EDM, or bard build would work better. And if clerics aren't going to be used to farm them, DP will outweigh full BAB from a class.
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Post by mammothtruk on Feb 18, 2009 18:56:51 GMT -5
I want the class. It was intended to be for everything that didnt already have a good PRC class. It fits with warlock very very well. Its not that much more powerful than the EK, Its no where near as powerful as the swiftblade, and there are many more instances that other classes trump this one.
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Post by Loudent2 on Feb 18, 2009 19:22:54 GMT -5
For farming an anti-magic boss, I wouldn't even bother with a cleric, high BAB or otherwise. It'll just be safer and quicker to make a boss farming mage and hit from range. Edit: Now that I think of it, why would you even use a cleric to farm anti-magic bosses? There isn't a clear seperate of magic and anti-magic. The Enchanted lands, for example has a couple of beholders and a set of regular mobs. It will likely continue to be that way in the runny-eye citadel. Fallen gate will have drow and deep gnomes with healty spell resistance but also fungus and oozes that succumb to spells. gishes will always be the best of both worlds but sometimes it's going to take more than one person with some relatively dedicated abilities to make it through an area. In addition, the deadliness of epic encounters doesn't translate real well into using potions. I suspect heal/greater restoration will be the mainstay (if and when they get past magical protection. the really interesting stuff is going to be when I start building bosses a gishes
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Post by nicethugbert on Feb 18, 2009 19:28:32 GMT -5
What about Canaith Lyrist?
EDIT: Incidentally, Lou, now that I have your attention, did you notice the link for the area I PM'ed you?
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Post by Loudent2 on Feb 18, 2009 19:36:26 GMT -5
What about Canaith Lyrist? A travesty! yeah, I haven't gottent to it yet. Was working on cube AI for the last few days and ran into a serious scripting/toolset bug last night that I spent hours workiong on (and will likely spend countless more hours but at this point I might work around it) Got a couple more things to finish up tonight, have some SoS stuff to do and then I'll download the app and look at the areas.
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Post by Loudent2 on Feb 18, 2009 19:40:59 GMT -5
Look we know that there are already overpowered PRCs, but that doesn't mean we add another one. Honestly, I would embrace this as a warlock, avenger and assasin prestige class but full BAB with 10/10 progression is essentially unheard of. I couldn't tell you why kaedrin decided to make this abomination.
However, I'm never that set in my ways. Put a poll in the main section. give the option to put it in or leave it out or other and we'll see how the players feel. I'm always open to being persuaded.
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Post by nicethugbert on Feb 18, 2009 19:49:00 GMT -5
yeah, I haven't gottent to it yet. Was working on cube AI for the last few days and ran into a serious scripting/toolset bug last night that I spent hours workiong on (and will likely spend countless more hours but at this point I might work around it) Got a couple more things to finish up tonight, have some SoS stuff to do and then I'll download the app and look at the areas. [/quote] NP, no hurries, just wanted to know. I did make an area so you don't need the app if you don't want it. But it is a great app.
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Post by nicethugbert on Feb 18, 2009 19:52:24 GMT -5
Look we know that there are already overpowered PRCs, but that doesn't mean we add another one. Honestly, I would embrace this as a warlock, avenger and assasin prestige class but full BAB with 10/10 progression is essentially unheard of. I couldn't tell you why kaedrin decided to make this abomination. However, I'm never that set in my ways. Put a poll in the main section. give the option to put it in or leave it out or other and we'll see how the players feel. I'm always open to being persuaded. I'd rather wait until you make your anti-magic stuff so we can evaluate it properly. Otherwise, f you decide to shut the class down then you'll have to deal with a bunch KoT toons being in the wild. Hmm, we could hunt them down ....
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Post by Kaedrin on Feb 18, 2009 21:10:35 GMT -5
PnP has a number of high bab, full/near-full progression prestige classes. That's not to mention the fact that there is no class limit and you can splash a ton of classes for just that first level on the classes with full bab and mixed casting (usually getting +1 BAB, +1 spell level such as Dragon Slayer).
Then again, we are talking about PnP which has dual progression/ medium (and high) bab classes or high powered (stormlord, dragon disc) as well as the weak ones (BFZ, medium bab/1/2 caster or Shadow dancer). Tome of Battle vs Barbarian/Paladin.
Just a snapshot of high bab, near full progression classes (all with epic levels get to continue this): Fist of Raziel (9/10, Divine) (very easy to get in to) Swanmay (9/10, Any) Gray Hand Enforcer (4/5, Any) Fochlucan Lyrist (10/10, Dual Progression) Sacred Fist (8/10, Divine) Abjurant Champion (5/5, Arcane) Eldritch Knight (9/10, Arcane) Windwalker (10/10, Divine) Hexer (10/10, Any) Verdant Lord (10/10, Any) Jade Phoenix Mage (8/10, Arcane) Ruby Knight Vindicator (8/10, Divine) Knight Phantom (9/10, Arcane) Cyran Avenger (4/5, Any) Deadgrim (4/5, Any)
Edit: It's also trivival to alter the prestige class requirements (requiring x or y class) and which progression feats are turned on (spirit shaman yes, wizard no).
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Post by cosper123 on Feb 18, 2009 23:13:59 GMT -5
Fist of Raziel (9/10, Divine) (very easy to get in to) Swanmay (9/10, Any) Gray Hand Enforcer (4/5, Any) Abjurant Champion (5/5, Arcane) Windwalker (10/10, Divine) Verdant Lord (10/10, Any) Jade Phoenix Mage (8/10, Arcane) Ruby Knight Vindicator (8/10, Divine) Knight Phantom (9/10, Arcane) Cyran Avenger (4/5, Any) Deadgrim (4/5, Any) Are these PrCs you are implimenting soon or something? I couldn't find them on your page.
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