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Post by mammothtruk on Apr 1, 2008 12:32:42 GMT -5
example: spider queen - drops her unique items some times and sometimes it drops other normal items. Such as it drops the unique +3 breastplate and sometimes it drops a ring of wizardry(3) or something like that. Instead it drops its unique items(breastplate) or random(boots +3 dodge AC vs rock gnomes).
And that battle grounds has crashed the server before but not like it has been. Something about us running it over and over and over with 3-4 people seems to upset the server something fierce.
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Post by Loudent2 on Apr 1, 2008 12:47:15 GMT -5
Well the spider queen never drops the the rapier/breastplate/shield/helm. She's a place holder for Bezbilla (My spider demon thingy). When the spider queen spawns she drops the standard magic stuff, but when Bezbilla spawns then she drops the specials
But yeah, It could be done.
I like the concept of random magic items because you get that whole excited rat pellet feeling, but it quickly turns sour after getting a lot of crap (I had to tune the cost ratio waaay down to avoid having +5 weapons randomly dropping. I might drop the whole thing and replace it with more runes.
While elemental and enhance runes will always be tightly controlled I can see things like skill and stat runes dropping randomly as well as other properties (vampiric regen, wounding, bonus spell slots etc etc).
As for quests, I've just finished writing a system that will allow a player to select their reward from the loot bucket so I'll be able to introduce more actual items as quest rewards in the server (the batch you sent me are the first ones going in).
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Post by Beldar on Apr 1, 2008 13:21:16 GMT -5
If we get random drop runes, will they be tradeable (not attuned)? My fighter doesn't have a lot of use for bonus spell slots. He gave up on the spider queen because he only ever got rings of wizardry, which he gave away to his magic using friends.
Why the bias against +5 weapons? A lvl 18 fighter with a +5 sword probably still loses a battle with a lvl 18 wizard (premonition, greater stone skin, meteor swarm, missle swarm). Without magic items, fighters become dependent on caster friends to be useful. It flips their low-level dependence relationship, but the high level fighter doesn't have anything to look forward to in the relationship - he becomes like a summon - nice to keep the mob off the caster, but if he can't, the casters can protect themselves anyway.
I realize this probably comes down to preference (and it is your server which I enjoy immensely), but I like the OC balance. Fighters (and other non-magic using classes) still retain some usefulness and independence as the levels progress, if they can obtain their own buffs. Seems like the biggest problem on PWs is low-level characters getting outsized hand-me-downs - a problem you have solved with "attuned" (which is brilliant by the way). Maybe there should be a loot script that lets chars get the correct shape (e.g., spear not halberd) for attuned boss drops. Maybe I'll get around to learning the toolset - I have the technical skills to develop this sort of feature.
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Post by mammothtruk on Apr 1, 2008 13:31:49 GMT -5
yeah runes with new properties would be really cool. randomized runes with properties like +2 saves vs sonic, +3 damage vs giants, +2 will save, ect. Kind of like the properties from the random loot generator on runes. They dont need to be overly powerful in the least. In fact if I could migrate the bonus stuff from this sling I got yesterday to any other weapon I would have been jumping for joy. But a sling? I mean sure hes a halfling and all and sure they get a +1 but crossbow! That would have been amazing. Anyways I like the runes system and with minor runes as a random reward for something like that bounty quest system you mentioned in another thread a while back? Yeah that would rock the house. The quest board should happen. Its just that amazing.
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Post by Loudent2 on Apr 1, 2008 13:41:02 GMT -5
If we get random drop runes, will they be tradeable (not attuned)? Haven't though that far. Sounds like it would be fair to have them tradeable or offer some way to exchange the ones you don't like for something you do (runes for gems?) Such is whim of the random number generator. I solve that problem with volume (kill her enoough times eventually you end up with two of everything.) I have absolutely no bias against +5 enhancements. My bias is against that kind of thing dropping randomly. +1 or +2 items are ok and are just part of a servers item inflation but I doubt we'll ever see unattuned +5 items dropping off of mobs. Have no fear, You will get your +5 sword and then-some. So what else is there to look forward too in terms of loot at the high (epic) levels? Tomes. That's right. permanent (non-effect, non-magical) enhancement of stats. Perhaps Golems, workshops, strongholds. More stone powers of course. all kinds of great stuff bouncing around in my head. I'm just furiously trying to finish up the 1-20 areas and I'll be putting together what should be a fun ride in epic.
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Post by mammothtruk on Apr 1, 2008 14:19:15 GMT -5
OMG golems would be AMAZING! Collection of the parts, collection of the ingredients, and then the finding of the golem creation book your looking for! And then you put yourself all these pieces into a box or something use the book on the box and BOOM instant friend.
Oh and man wouldnt it be SWEET if there was some kind of thing in place that let you BUY and OWN a building. Sure that might not seem like something cool and awefully RP of me but consider this. You own the building and you have to protect that building or it becomes a monster spawning area until someone cleans it out and takes it over right? So then you have a purchase merc units that wander around your building and protect it right? and other players can attack your building to take it over right? and there is a place to buy siege mercs to help right? It could be amazing. a lot of work for Lou but amazing.
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Post by dordon on Apr 1, 2008 15:40:41 GMT -5
Just don't let mammothtruk have a female golem. That would be...wrong.
On a more serious note, I think balancing items for a server is hard, and that Loudent has been pretty much a better job of this than any other server I've played on. Sure, we don't have tons of players and lots of PvP going on to stress the systems, but they work. In particular, the rune system is very interesting in that you can have a very powerful +5 sword with +2d6 elemental damage right now, but you have to trade that off against your AC.
In any case, as an ex-Diablo addict, I can attest to the allure of a random loot generator. I think the one we've got just needs to be tuned a bit more to weed out some of the really useless combinations, e.g. maybe no skill bonuses on weapons.
I think the other part of the equation is the economy. Right now it seems to be deliberately locked down with the max 250 gp buy back price. Which doesn't matter that much now as there isn't much to buy other than spell scrolls if you're a wizard or heal potions if you're a fighter. But as the options for gaining and spending gold expand, I could see having these random items as simply something to sell as a reasonable option.
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Post by mammothtruk on Apr 1, 2008 16:38:37 GMT -5
I use a lot of gold. not for items or scrolls, but to craft wands and scrolls of spells that arent for sale. If you have the gold I have the skills. or atleast I did before I releveled and dont remember if I got them all. I think I can still do wands, arms, and armor. anyways just something for everyone to consider for those extra gp you have laying around. Have skill will craft.
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Post by nicethugbert on Apr 1, 2008 16:57:01 GMT -5
Not entirely sure what you mean. Do you want a chance of the custom items or pre-made one? To be honest I'm not terribly fond of the Random item generator. As interesting as it is it isn't designed for what I want it to do. And there's bad stuff going on with the battles. It seems when you have multiple high level players with everyone slinging spells around the server crashes like there's no tomorrow. I may have to remove the system or restrict it to lower levels until I get the issues worked out. I'm not sure the entangle spells are working very much at the higher levels. If something repeatedly fails, then the AI should stop doing it.
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Post by nicethugbert on Apr 1, 2008 17:26:55 GMT -5
I like Lou's basic system very much and I don't want to see it changed. Actually, it is the best I have seen. It is unique and best of all it is effective. Very few ideas of this nature are effective. I think the way forward is in the same direction. Make the small things count. +1 enhancement means something on this server for a long time were it doesn't on others. I think +1 weapon/armor enhancement should be craftable, maybe drop-able, pre-epic, and +2 for epic.
So, no random runes, plz. Random Orc Horde Battle rewards is a good idea because you can repeat the battle as many times as you want. But, quests you cannot, so even if you can trade your rune you end with a feeling of disappointment. The problem with the random battle rewards is that it simply needs a little tunning, not demolition.
The battle/random drop thing counters the fed-ex feeling that quests tend to acquire. It's fun to gamble along with people and laugh at all the crap that falls, and cheer for the low powered but useful items when they drop. We just need to get some more situationally useful items a little more often, and items that form a base for crafting. Much of the Orc Horde drops seem useless because there are not enough people to support an economy or because they cannot be altered.
I got a 2d8 vs. vermin katana yesterday. My main toons have no use for it as they are past the stage of camping spiders and they're not built to use katana's. But, what if there were more players and players formed guilds? Then everyone in the guild would take turns using the spider killer, especially if it could be customized.
What if there were a halfling guild? They may be very interested in that sling.
I'd rather up the XP supply a bit and let class features supply that "DING! SCORE!" feeling than flood the server with +20 weapons and immunity gear so we can all play yet another rdd/fb/wm build while the casters go rot, like every other action PW tends to do.
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timmies07
New Member
skype username: christoph077427
Posts: 23
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Post by timmies07 on Apr 2, 2008 7:37:49 GMT -5
hmm I have a question, with all the runes (and possible runes to come) how is it Lou that you keep the balance between monsters Cr's and pc's this will be more so of a problem if random loot drops runes, I would think it would be hard to predict pc's abilities and then try to match a monster that would give a challenge for them without seriously mobbing the pc's
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Post by Loudent2 on Apr 2, 2008 12:23:40 GMT -5
I would never random drop enhancment or elemental runes. By random drop runes I'm talking about the kind of properties you get on the random items. (+damage vs race, skill runes etc etc).
The way I keep balance is calculating what it is that PCs are likely to have/do and give the same options to the monsters.
Ultimately though, all creatures in the world exist to be defeated.
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Post by nicethugbert on Apr 2, 2008 18:39:04 GMT -5
At the Orcish Horde map, allies run around willy nilly getting themselves mobbed. I prefer they rally near the PCs. Doesn't matter how many times I cast Storm of Vengance or how many orcs I have stooped under it, they invariably run off to where they can get mobbed instead of the easy pickins in my SoV.
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Post by Loudent2 on Apr 2, 2008 18:47:02 GMT -5
Sure. Of course if I do that then I have to modify the Orcish side to focus on the guy casting Storm of Vengence instead of them running around willy nilly.
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Post by mammothtruk on Apr 2, 2008 19:43:57 GMT -5
heres my suggestions for altering the battle field today.
the archers on the human side should be using crossbows and be med to lightly armed with no spells. How many rangers can they possibly get? So they should be crossbow men with secondary longsword shield or short sword buckler.
human captain should be less of a pansy. He runs up and even when I take the time to buff him up before he runs into battle takes about four hits and drops like a rock. He should be stronger as in more HP and maybe have some marshal style auras for moral bonuses to his troops.
warriors... ah they do what they do and even if they arent very strong they arent really suppose to be I guess
orc side archers should be fighters and not rangers. other than that they do what they do.
orc side captains could use the same buffing stuff like the human side. They are pretty weak and go down just as fast as the warriors.
orc warriors... same deal as human warriors.
Orc Clerics! Yeah I think a few of those running about like from the barrens would spice it up a bit. shamans would also work as orcs and shamans go hand in hand.
Human Wizards! Again some spell casters using AoE or mass buffing spells would really put a smile on a warriors face. Could also be Sorcs so they can cast what they need on their spell list when they need it.
Clerics/Shamans and Wizards/Sorcs shouldnt have entangles and crap. Maybe a two AoE damage spells(one cone/line and one radius), a single AoE inhibit spell, and mass buffs. Mass hold person and the like would also be really cool to see used.
and smarter AI that wont just stand and swing at something they cant possibly hit. NTB with buffs and SoV on is near impossible for them to even hit let alone get past the spell buffs. they shouldnt mob at his feet, they should try and kill the weakest link they can get to in a timely manner so they can take out DPS and win the battle.
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