|
Post by cosper123 on Jan 8, 2009 1:02:03 GMT -5
Yeah Hips is good for herding too. Also nice for drawing mobs away from a corpse that you are unable to take down quickly...allowing for a quick raise. d**n now I want SD again lol. Hmm Wiz 10/SD2/PM10/ASOC8 would be nice...HIPS, evasion, and uncanny dodge are worth what I'd lose to Monk and then don't have to worry about multiclass restrictions Drow, Teifling, or yuan-ti seem like my best bets now. Anyone know if the Yuan-ti "Scaled Skin: +1 Natural Armor" stacks with palemaster and nat ac amulet? Is there a cap at some point if so? Because, Frost mage is looking pretty good too...so I could possibly have all above.
|
|
|
Post by shoujo on Jan 8, 2009 5:49:14 GMT -5
I probably should have mentioned this earlier, but if you shapechange, your gear probably isn't going to merge. You'll have to arrange your spellbook so that the spells you'll lose by shifting are filled by buffs you'll cast before shifting. It's a bit of a hassle really which is why I haven't made a mage yet. Still trying to decide if I want to go that route or go auto-still.
Racial AC bonuses won't work when shifted. Tested with svirf and YT. The YT's AC stacks with nat AC ammies, but I'm not sure about PM. There's a 20 AC cap per type, but dodge AC is the only type that will ever hit the cap with current options.
|
|
|
Post by Loudent2 on Jan 8, 2009 11:56:48 GMT -5
I prefer a +2 int race instead, seeing as red wizard is limited to human (and you're not generally too feat starved in a wizard). Being human gives you a bonus feat at character creation. Perfect for picking up spell-casting prodigy. And since human also gives a bonus skill point per level. There's very little difference between a human with 18 int and SP and a int 20 non-human. The difference mostly lies in racial proficiencies.
|
|
|
Post by Beldar on Jan 8, 2009 13:34:06 GMT -5
On the other hand, 2 INT is worth two epic feats. It impacts the number of spells per day I think as well as the DC (of course RWoT more than makes up for that). I think in general your statement is true, but not necessarily for a wizard.
|
|
cytoc
Full Member
Posts: 107
|
Post by cytoc on Jan 8, 2009 16:20:22 GMT -5
RWoT gives +1 DC for his particular school, whereas +2 int will give +1 DC for all schools. You would also be crazy not to take spell-casting prodigy as a pure wizard, human or not.
Admittedly the RWoT also gains +5 caster levels, but (and I may be wrong here) most spells seem to be capped well before caster level 30. I guess if this helps for the purpose of overcoming high SR it may be a little more worthwhile.
I guess at the end of the day I feel the advantages of RWoT (2 feats and the bonus caster levels) are not as good as the advantages from other caster classes, such as ASoC, PM, frost mage, etc. and so would rather be a +2 int class and take these casting classes instead of being human for RWoT.
|
|
|
Post by cosper123 on Jan 8, 2009 18:55:34 GMT -5
I made him a Yuan-ti and resisted the urge to name him Lord Voldemort because I didn't want people to know what a nerd I am.
Whoops.
|
|
|
Post by dragon4e on Jan 8, 2009 18:59:11 GMT -5
Nothing stopping you from naming him Tom Riddle.
|
|
|
Post by cosper123 on Jan 8, 2009 20:43:51 GMT -5
lol
|
|
|
Post by giant2005 on Jan 9, 2009 8:15:04 GMT -5
Admittedly the RWoT also gains +5 caster levels, but (and I may be wrong here) most spells seem to be capped well before caster level 30. I guess if this helps for the purpose of overcoming high SR it may be a little more worthwhile. You are forgetting the biggest benefit of those extra 5 caster levels. A level 30 caster will get 3 Epic DC points, a level 35 caster gets 5. That extra two plus the third they get for being a RWoT is more than you can get from any other class. Even with Kaedrin implementing the likes of the Heartwarder, RWoT is still the DC king.
|
|
|
Post by shoujo on Jan 9, 2009 16:36:22 GMT -5
You are forgetting the biggest benefit of those extra 5 caster levels. A level 30 caster will get 3 Epic DC points, a level 35 caster gets 5. That extra two plus the third they get for being a RWoT is more than you can get from any other class. Even with Kaedrin implementing the likes of the Heartwarder, RWoT is still the DC king. Didn't know that Thanks for the info. Been trying to figure out how to get decent DC with a wizard (most I got was from a wiz 26/cleric 1/ASoC 3). Hm, a DC based wizard might not be sucky compared to a heartwarder anymore. Time to test. Thanks again Edit: Tested a wiz 5/ASoC 10/PM 5/RW 10 and the DCs for Wail came out to 44 (with greater focus necro, necro spec) and 40 for the other level 9 spells with +10 Int gear and no auto-still type feats. Heartwarder hit 43 with all without abusing practiced caster so I wouldn't say the RW is the DC king. It's still a pretty solid option for a DC wizard though and since I like having lots of spell choices, probably the one I'll take. I'd probably opt to boot persistent spell for an extra necro focus next time I build though. Gotta make sure the RW can take epic focus though ><
|
|
cytoc
Full Member
Posts: 107
|
Post by cytoc on Jan 9, 2009 18:06:54 GMT -5
You are forgetting the biggest benefit of those extra 5 caster levels. A level 30 caster will get 3 Epic DC points, a level 35 caster gets 5. That extra two plus the third they get for being a RWoT is more than you can get from any other class. Even with Kaedrin implementing the likes of the Heartwarder, RWoT is still the DC king. You've got me there, I did not know that... Guess that then adds more value to the class than I was initially assuming.
|
|
|
Post by cosper123 on Jan 9, 2009 20:22:03 GMT -5
I have a Sun Elf wiz06/asoc01 with 20 int that I fast started and it is unplayable, for me at least. Cannot handle a mob. Needs to rest after every fight. She doesn't have a reserve feat because I wanted asoc ASAP. It's pretty much what I suspected. It's a lot more bullet proof than I suspected but still dies easy for one reason or another. Often runs out of firepower before the fight ends as so many slots are required for defense. Not really having the problems you did so far. Wiz 6 and PM1 here with 20 int as well (and 18 dex). Only twinked gear I have is a Dex Bracer +5 and Int cap +5. Went and assinated the orc cheif guy in the first barricade, Beldar helped me with the second one, and then I went slumming for essences in the newbie quests using a staff for melee. Once able to enchant my shirt and staff I was good, and the elemental addition to my staff left me able to melee all the mobs in the newbie quests....Saved up Empowered magic missles and acid arrows for the bosses...all else were buffs like displacement, sheild, imp mage armor, and such. The real problem is the lack of resting places just as I suspected. You can't play a mage like a mage...you HAVE to melee. And if I didn't know where these quest items were I'd be screwed. It's painful enough having to melee everything, and a shame. This is also after a quickstart...thank God I didn't start off on this server as a mage, I'd have left in a day. With all of THAT having been said, you should be able to make it NTB. If nothing else round up a bunch of low level mobs and fireball them like mad if you have to. Nothing I have met in the Lands Edge newbie dungeons can stand up to that. With the right buffs you should be able to kill them before you fireball yourself to death
|
|
|
Post by Beldar on Jan 9, 2009 20:50:28 GMT -5
Fireburst is a somewhat safer means of killing the starter mobs (it doesn't damage the caster). If you have the empowered version of the 2nd level spell, it will help you along nicely. Just keep your buffs up, so you don't have to make too many concentration checks.
I would like to thank Shoujo for publishing his test results. Saves me some considerable time. If I am remembering correctly, epic spell adds +5 to the DC so his RWoT should be able to achieve DC 49 on his vampire feast (easiest epic spell to get btw). Wander into a crowd in the field and tell them to die.
On a related note, has anyone ever figured out what the point of the Power Word line of spells is? They seem really sucky to me. PW:Kill sucks compared to wail. Someone please tell me I am missing something obvious. I remember obsessing over PWK in 1st edition PnP. The idea just sounds so cool: there is the magic word that you can utter and those that hear it just die! Sweet! (hey, I was young back then...)
|
|
|
Post by dordon on Jan 9, 2009 21:17:49 GMT -5
Power Word spells have no save. If you have less than 100 current hp, you die to PWK.
I think if you're trying to get maximum DC, the best build is 20 wiz/10 RWoT. Those extra wizard bonus feats can be used to get greater int feats if you already have the epic spell focus and will more than compensate for the extra 2 dc that a heartwarder gets when you factor in the specialist school bonus and the RWoT bonus.
That said, a max DC build probably isn't the most effective caster build for this server.
|
|
|
Post by cosper123 on Jan 10, 2009 14:06:20 GMT -5
I have a Sun Elf wiz06/asoc01 with 20 int that I fast started and it is unplayable, for me at least. Cannot handle a mob. Needs to rest after every fight. She doesn't have a reserve feat because I wanted asoc ASAP. It's pretty much what I suspected. It's a lot more bullet proof than I suspected but still dies easy for one reason or another. Often runs out of firepower before the fight ends as so many slots are required for defense. Blah Blah Blah To expand upon what I wrote before, I also forgot that I have an amulet of Vitality +6. The extra hitpoints really help. Once you get the fireburst spell it's smooth sailing. Just round up a few chodes, blow them up, rest and repeat. Using this strategy I'm not having a hard time finding resting spots. I have an extra Amulet of vit +6, Int hat +5, and dex bracers +5 if you need them. I'll need the int hat and dex bracers back eventually for another build idea I have, but that won't be for another month or so.....you are more than welcome to borrow them until then NTB, plenty of time to kill the giant lutinents enough to get your own.
|
|