|
Post by mammothtruk on Jan 25, 2009 20:50:24 GMT -5
heroic isnt being added yet. nor are they prebuffing. working on getting that script from Lou and the prebuff instructions so they will work as intended. From watching MP go through the theme for the next day is toughter. everything needs to be tougher. I think Im going to drop the tough template on the minions, heroic X2 on the minis and X4 on the bosses. Im also increasing the base level of everything by at least 2. The AI does strange things so I have to fix the spell lists of the casters or they will cast flare on a level 23 character thinking its going to do something.
Working on getting K's stuff integrated and the fast buff rod in at the moment. Then once thats done I hope to have the script so I can get that in and increase the tough. and then start going through the monster list and giving them some love to balance out the casters and increase the general power of everything. Might be uploaded tonight, more likely in the morning.
|
|
|
Post by mammothtruk on Jan 26, 2009 10:54:47 GMT -5
have the prebuff scripts from Lou but they arent prebuffing yet... will hammer out why. They are however using their buffs before they engage witch is nice but not perfect. edit: pulled all the unused maps out of the module, imported Kaedrin's stuff sot he spells and such will work. Kaedrin's isnt fully integrated for testing and the reason is I dont want to go about creating moduel event scripts. They will work on LDoA and at this point thats good enough for me. Im going about Shoujo's suggestion of making the area less empty as Im sure hes right in that people will want a bit more background. Ive also increased the levels of everything in the test module by 6+ and gave them the Natural AC I forgot to give them. I ran through it this morning already a few times and saw things dropping 40 AB with the arrows and some of the more powerful were around 45. GoT killed my lv30 BotB test character, but that might be because all the buffs were gone and I had curse song, impending blades, bestow curse, and a slew of other debuffs on me at the time. Still that fairs pretty well since BotB characters are decked out in gear. The GoT stats that concern people are 800HP 63 AC and 54 AB unbuffed. Hes got three buffers that are going to be linked into him witch will buff them further. I also gave him weapons that he didnt have ni the last update. I still have to fix some of the monsters as they arent using their weapons and I know I gave them the weapon+feat to use it. Seems like the AI thinks fists are a better option fro some reason. TonyK fixed that in his post SoZ update, but we are dealing with default AI still and OEI hasnt fixed it. Maybe in 1.22 they will start using the full TonyK AI instead of half-arsing it. Prebuffing isnt working at all right now. It will on LDoA, but apparently Im missing part of the script set. Lou warned me there might be missing parts when I asked for them. I looked at the three I got and in theory they should work as they dont call another script that I can see. This isnt to say they arent asking for information I havent got on the monster or a area/module event script that should be firing when I dont have it. Its alright for now as long as it works when Lou gets it. Im going to do some placeables work, fix a few more monsters, and get it uploaded here in that next few hours. I hope you are willing to give it another go today so I know just how badly I didnt meet the expectations this time around Lots of thanks to Shoujo and Beldar for helping me test last night. You guys rock. Without you I would have missed a great deal of problems that I just seem to have skipped over when working on all this.
|
|
|
Post by mammothtruk on Jan 26, 2009 13:01:57 GMT -5
Temple of the Three WindsVersion 2 with updated monsters, integrated fast buff rod, and partial Kaedrin's. Kaedrin's classes will show up now, his spells will work, however the module events arent there so some of the abilities wont work. They will when its on LDoA, but until then we just have to deal. Remember that Tough, Heroic X2, and Heroic X4 still have to be added to the monsters, so they will be harder in the server than they are currently. More placeables work will be done today along with a great deal more monsters to fill the empty area. Ill get with Lou later today and figure out how Im going to get the spawn chain working for Aztur, the minion spawn working for Lien, and hopefully hammer out why the prebuff isnt working. For testing today I need about the same feedback Shoujo gave yesterday. His insight was well thought out and straight to the point. Helped immensely.
|
|
|
Post by mammothtruk on Jan 26, 2009 18:52:27 GMT -5
ah progress progress! prebuffing now working!!! DoT remade and should be working. testing it after I upload. GoT hurts now Found a bug in my NESS tag and fixed it so some of the missing monsters are spawning now. Added Deathless Legos and Shady Branches to the dungeon. Still needs balancing. Worked on some new items using the sunsilk shield models. Im going to pull the proper model files out of the hak and send them along with the module to Lou when Im done. No reason to have another huge hak added if only one or two models are used. Made a few new weapons using MwMDragon's models for some monsters. I believe they are already in the LDoA hak so no increase in hak size there. Downloaded the Purple Crystal Sword model and going to work that into a new quest weapon tomorrow. Testers needed tonight! EDIT Oh yeah a new link would help right? TotW V3EDIT Oh yeah and you will need the sunsilk shield haks if you dont already have them HEREThe final version will not require it as I pointed out above. I may just dump the model and use a default one,but I would like to have it as a quest reward when its all said and done.
|
|
|
Post by shoujo on Jan 26, 2009 19:49:17 GMT -5
Talk about bad timing. Just finished testing v2's GoT and I see there's another version up already lol Minions - Still not a threat. Critters seem to have about 180 HP and 16 AB. No sign of whirlwind attack which was good. Samurais had about 27 AB so those are a little higher than the Halls of Fire spawns. Currently don't see a reason to fight them though. It's just quicker to invis or run through the entire zone and hit the GoT. Oh, a bunch of the bards are still fighting unarmed btw. Mini-bosses - Believe I saw a 40 AB rogue build of some kind. Potentially nasty if sneaking, but otherwise not a threat. Will see what v3's are like with prebuffing. GoT v2 - This was fun Not sure what his AC is, but I did see 69 AB attacks and the sucker dual wields lol Went up with Grilka (bard 7/cleric 1/RDD 10/swiftblade 6) and she needed to use about 5k's worth of items (potion of greater heroism, premo, DP, shield, IMA) to hit 78 AC and 58 AB to take him down. Results were pretty swingy though and dice played a big role. Quickest I took him down in was about 5 rounds, but usually I had to back off a bit and recast DP to kill him. In hindsight, I probably should've used her interposing gloves and curse of impending blades. Result might've differed if heroic avatar worked, but I also assume this guy's going to get the heroic x2 or x4 template, so the overall result probably won't change. Mogh (bard 9/cleric 1/lyricist 6/stormlord 9) had more luck. No items consumed, no healing used and could take the sucker down in a straight fight with full buffs. Generally lost about 100 HP (excluding DR) after he'd chew through two 150 HP premos. Current impression is that a mage would have the easiest time killing him. Without a speed boost, the guy can't get into melee range and then it would be a matter of IGMS spam since it looks like he doesn't have magic DR. 50% concealment is essential for tanks. I'll post the test results for v3 later on.
|
|
|
Post by mammothtruk on Jan 26, 2009 20:15:33 GMT -5
so I should maybe drop some SR on his hide to make him more mage proof. 5 rounds is not the desired results here. However hes gotten some push since with prebuffing the minions around him are much much stronger. Lou is fixing the prebuff script with new spells from MotB, SoZ, and Kaedrin's so that will help tons too.
The cultists are intended for a lower level grind area and I think they are doing their jobs right. They will be a push for the 14-16 crowd and I think thats in the right area. Will have to give that a test or two before I give that a final word.
Mini's with buffs are much harder than without, but still shouldnt push more than the level 20-25 crowd. I think I need to beef their weapons a bit for more AB since I think they are low on that end and alright on the AC.
Samurai I have to figure out how to make them more challenging. They will be linked so that will add more to the appeal, but again that AB is lower than I want and its going to have to get pushed up through weapons.
Everything is going to get tough or better template so the HP will increase decently high. heres my list so far
cultists - tough X1 samurai - heroic X1 minis - heroic X2 DoT - heroic X4 GoT - epic X2 deathless legos - heroic X2 shady branches - heroic X2 Lien - Epic X2 Lien minions - tough X1 Curator - Epic X1 CoT - Epic X2 Wind Callers - Heroic X3 Re-Animator - Epic X1 Door Keeper - Heroic X4 Aztur chain - Epic X2-X3-X4
So the final version will rock the house much more than their counter parts for testing. These are giving me an idea of how tough they are without. The reason for this is once I have them at the level they stomp down lv25-30 characters the template additions will ramp them up to be a group effort or a well well planned out assault from a very very gifted character.
I took the Divine Dragon BotB character against GoT today after I worked on it for about 4 hours and lost to him. I took him down to 63% HP and he took me drop from 714HP with 64AC. Grant it the Divine Dragon isnt the toughest cookie in the BotB he is pretty close to what an epic can be on the server right now. The one magor weakness for the boss battles is casters and SR will give them a much better chance.
|
|
|
Post by mammothtruk on Jan 26, 2009 20:23:20 GMT -5
found the issue with cultist bards and no weapon. Gave them the feat to use them again. Relevel by class template took it away... FIXED
Still cant figure out why some of the mini's are dropping their bows in favor of fists. Have the feats and its the most viable weapon. They have no other items to switch to so fist cant possibly be the best option...
|
|
|
Post by nicethugbert on Jan 27, 2009 21:23:30 GMT -5
Haven't had a chance to test it yet. But, it seems that by the time I do get around to testing it it will be unsoloable.
|
|
|
Post by Beldar on Jan 27, 2009 21:28:25 GMT -5
It is pretty much that way already. You need to be a studly level 30 to get around. Curse you fireshield, curse you!
|
|
|
Post by mammothtruk on Jan 27, 2009 22:27:19 GMT -5
well its suppose to be a team dungeon after all.
however it will get revised for balance by Lou before it ever gets on the server so he is sure to listen to everyone here and balance accordingly. Im not responsible for the buffing. As they are casters they get buffs based on their caster level by the script handed to me. Im removing some of their songs as they are a waste at the target level most of the time. grant it they worked on Beldar's skelly bashing non buffer due to his extremely low will save. I think fireshield should be removed from the buffing script in favor of a random energy shield from Kaedrin's package. Should be pretty easy to do after learning a few things from the script and working with some of the spawn system. Its a matter of if Lou decides to go that route.
For now I think the creatures are balanced for a endgame team and just need small tweaks. some HP rebalance vs AC and some AB increase/lower depending on the creature. GoT HP needs increased and his AC lowered. hes real tough to hit right now. Hes damage could use some drop due to how fast he kills a player. maybe 80 per hit with 8 attacks is to much. Its not like he misses... so thats going to change to me a longer fight and not as hard.
|
|
|
Post by shoujo on Jan 28, 2009 7:25:19 GMT -5
Same test chars as before.
Edit: TotW v3
Cultists - Not sure if it was a fluke, but I saw a miss on a 46. If they're intended to be for 14s to 16s, that strikes me as being on the high side. Even if that was a fluke, the combination of autobuffs and major HP inflation from templates will mean all my PCs will avoid the place. Might as well hit gianthome where templates and autobuffs don't exist and where there's an XP increase for fighting tougher mobs.
Minis - There was some freak archer that dealt 35-40 damage with a single attack each round, but other than that, they weren't much. The cleric mini that uses battletide isn't using a weapon. I'd rank them from weakest to strongest as the guys with the greataxes, the cleric, the rogue (simply because it has the AB to hit and not because of its sneaks), and the archer. I'm also a bit concerned about mixing minis that can push 20s to 25s with spawns for 14s to 16s.
DoT - Made me glad I've never played a warlock outside of testing in a trainer mod. 50% concealment = one dead warlock. It also wasn't autobuffed, so it wasted rounds buffing.
GoT - Could've been a fluke, but the guy seemed somehow weaker than before. Did its AC get reduced?
The doorkeeper after the GoT's a gimp. There were also about 8-10 copies of the same miniboss, P-something the Fallen in the room with the stage and large book.
|
|
|
Post by mammothtruk on Jan 28, 2009 10:48:03 GMT -5
so would you say I need to balance the minis against the divine archer (cleric with a bow)?
GoT to easy? hm Im not sure how to fix that cause I watched it eat MP a few times... His builds cant be that weak.
DoT and those buffs... Well they wont be on her spell list come final. And Lou is reworking that prebuff script so she should in theory buff up even without the spells later. She will keep the HB script on and hope the script gets updated for warlocks.
DoorKeeper a gimp? yeah I noticed that. He is going to get an HP boost but the AC and AB are going to stay the same. He should be at least a 10 round battle. He keeps using the d**n SL buff the first round and that needs to be prebuffed. Ive got a list started of abilities that need to be added to a prebuff script on creatures. Its going to be separate from the spell prebuff the way I understand. local vars on the creature that fire it off or something. anyway HP to all creatures and slgiht drop in ACs for some.
As for that miss on the cultist? hm I would bet thats one of the casters using mirror image. They are also using fireshield witch hurts like hell to anyone without immunity/resistance. they are getting a drop in AC and AB with some HP boosting. slightly longer fighter but easier in the end I think.
Pallen is a place holder for a lot of minis in that room. there are like 11 of them in a single small area. And they are right before a bigger longer battle.
|
|
|
Post by Beldar on Jan 28, 2009 12:31:38 GMT -5
Neither of the characters I tried had concealment. The non-buffing melee fighter (lvl 24) has an AC of 56 and a first attack AB of 41 (10 attacks per round w/ PTWF). He could chew through the little guys, but the fire shield killed him.
My battle cleric (lvl 29 - artificially leveled) was fine as long as he maintained his buffs. He was gimped by the fact that his FM levels gave him no caster levels (and since he has 10 FM that cost him a lot). I have yet to play him through GoT's area. He smacked the warlock around like a toy when he was buffed, but died a bunch unbuffed.
My experience with GoT was that he only missed on a 1 against my AC 56 (or 62 w/ improved expertise). Since he did about 70 points per hit and had 8 attacks/round, my fighter never survived a single round. Even a party, I don't see much help in buffing. At that damage rate, stoneskin might as well not be there. I could get a few AC points from party members' recitation and haste spells, but that won't make enough of a difference to keep him upright. GoT as he stands is too tough for a pure melee.
I'll take a wizard through and see what I think. Zoltar has a pretty impressive DC - I suspect that he'll be able to clear out a lot of the lesser monsters with a wail or vampire feast.
I also am not sure I understand the idea of monsters for level 14-16 mixed with monsters for a party of 30s. The 30s will just be annoyed and level 14-16 characters can find safer opponents elsewhere.
I have gotten pretty proficient at quickly leveling a character through LDoA. Zoltar went from new to level 22 in the course of a single weekend. I tend to avoid areas where the risk-reward tradeoff is inferior to other areas. For instance, I rarely bother with giants anymore. I can level a character on orcs in east barrens for the same XP until I can move to west barrens. Orcs are safer and faster to level on because they don't KD you and they are less likely to mob you.
My experience in TotTWs so far would lead me to believe that I won't spend much time there unless the loots are insane. It does look good though. I like the wide open spaces and the absence of doors (that close even when you are standing in the way).
|
|
|
Post by mammothtruk on Jan 28, 2009 12:56:35 GMT -5
well I can make the cultists less buffing more melee/ranged and level them off more solo 25-30. If you think thats more like what you think you would find. That idea came from the way the true TotW is setup. You level on the cultists for a few levels and then move on to the harder samurai and minibosses and then camp the bosses for their loot drops. 1% chance on some of the drops and some are 50%. Tailoring to a pure melee is going to be pushovers for gish/battle cleric/bards. I could throw in some dispelling arrows on the cultists to help break down those characters while it wont effect a pure melee at all. It might be the way to balance out against all characters. Im also looking at the rod of buffing readouts to consider types of damage (elemental/physical type/material) to level the playing field for all characters.
|
|
|
Post by Beldar on Jan 28, 2009 13:29:59 GMT -5
On the other hand, tailoring the experience for a power built gish or battle cleric means that the ability to play characters like straight fighters and rogues is completely eliminated. I am more in the camp of tailoring the experience for normal builds. If the power builders find it too easy, they can always make a non-powerbuild. If you need 20+ buffs to be able to survive a zone, the rogue and fighter are out of luck (or the magic items are ridiculously over the top).
|
|