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Post by mammothtruk on Apr 10, 2009 11:20:31 GMT -5
Im not playing on another server. Being I barely log into LDoA right now due to latency issues. Im not looking to make a copy of another server I dont play on. Im looking to suggest things to the server I do play on. So unless your going to hit every server and list their features and say "look these servers do this so we cant or we will be cloning them." then your point is lost. And besides that who cares if LDoA has some features like the hundreds of other servers?
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Post by nicethugbert on Apr 10, 2009 19:35:11 GMT -5
well, does KOW have orcs? if so, shouldn't Lou fear that his orcs are copies? I think your logic is flawed. You have a point there. Just look at those orc models. They scream Planet of the Apes. It's an opportunity. Where in NWN 1 or 2 have you seen a Planet of the Apes server? There are certain features that I think should be added because it improves gameplay and this is not a copy of what others have done. I would love to see an auto follow feature here as well. To me, auto follow is an expected feature where I have seen it on most other servers so when I am on a server that lacks it, it seems as a deficency to me, not a copy. it is not these types of features that make a server unique over another. The quests and things like that are what does that. It would be the battle system and things of that nature that set this realm apart, not an auto loot or an auto-follow feature. I write apps for a living so this is sort of like that - people come to expect certain things to be part of the gui and if people encounter a gui without it, they see it ias a deficiency, not as a copy of a different gui. btw what is KOW? KOW is another NWN2 server. Alright then, auto gold pickup on all servers, because they are servers therefore it's expected. Oh, by the way, all movies must have sex scenes. No, it is not just the quests that make a server unique. Lou already said that gold pickup is part of the pacing. He's mentioned pacing a number of times. I still prefer that gold be made a significant reward and not pocket change found in any hide, or sprocket as I previously explained. Pacing can always be dealt with in other ways such XP, increased monster HP, etc.
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Post by nicethugbert on Apr 10, 2009 19:40:32 GMT -5
Im not playing on another server. Being I barely log into LDoA right now due to latency issues. Im not looking to make a copy of another server I dont play on. Im looking to suggest things to the server I do play on. So unless your going to hit every server and list their features and say "look these servers do this so we cant or we will be cloning them." then your point is lost. And besides that who cares if LDoA has some features like the hundreds of other servers? Yeah, but, plenty of other people do play on other servers and they talk to each other and if when talking about other servers they all sound the same then they'll just shelve the game and not bother trying other servers when they get bored.
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Post by nicethugbert on Apr 11, 2009 6:46:23 GMT -5
Another thing I don't like about the auto gold loot is that Lou has painted a resource starved world but with auto gold loot it's pure cha-ching with every kill. It clashes, and more so when you start adding more story elements and more involved dialogs and more atmosphere. It's too arcadey.
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Post by cosper123 on Apr 11, 2009 12:36:17 GMT -5
Yeah it's annoying having to stop and loot every creature but it boils down to this-
If you want it, loot it...if you don't need it as you've collected enough cash...then woot you've reached the point where you can afford the luxery of not having to loot anymore.
Once you get to a certain point you really have more gold than you know what to do with. The only money sinks for me atm are barkskin potions, heal potions, and raise dead scrolls. Money on death would be awesome and needed if this was more cash strapped at higher levels...but hey need a few thousand then do a few battlefields, the money adds up quick. Not at a point where you get that much from battlefields, then do the thinning the herd repeatable quests in the barrenlands. Both great sources of money...and the orcs themselves drop a good amount of gold.
What really sucks is that the bodies poof so soon (as Yrr mentioned earlier). Sucks when you are in the middle of battle and the bodies are disappearing while you're still fighting.
I also like NTB's idea of the minions not dropping a little here and there, but the boss guarding a chest or whatnot that has what you'd earn over the span of the zone. That way you don't have to bother looting every single mob, and killing the boss has more meaning.
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Post by shoujo on Apr 11, 2009 15:55:18 GMT -5
Do boss 'chests' really need to be made more attractive? Whenever upgrading gear, they're basically the only thing I bothered farming for a long time. The minions were basically speed bumps that I avoided whenever possible because they just increased the time I had to spend in a zone.
I'm all for auto looting gold. I mean the ones who need gold for stuff like extra scrolls and pots to stay alive are generally the ones who can't buff or heal themselves (i.e. the non-casters).
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Post by nicethugbert on Apr 11, 2009 16:41:27 GMT -5
The resource quests could be made more attractive. Not all drops have to be gold. There can be heal kit and potion drops. There can be storage spaces in dungeons guarded by mobs.
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Post by obregon on Apr 12, 2009 2:35:05 GMT -5
Another thing I don't like about the auto gold loot is that Lou has painted a resource starved world but with auto gold loot is pure cha-ching with every kill. It clashes, and more so when you start adding more story elements and more involved dialogs and more atmosphere. It's too arcadey. I missed the part where LDoA became, or was even discussed turning into, an RP server. Isn't it already pretty much the epitome of an 'arcadey' server? There's no story, no progression of context as characters level, quest progression is superficial to the point its obviously just to fill in the blanks of the script, there is ZERO rp that I've seen, there are no events, the areas are random challanges with no relationship to each other, and the world is completely static. do servers get any more 'arcadey' than that? That said, I like it here Its a GOOD arcadey server, and I'm all for improvements that support the gameplay people already enjoy here. What is gold supposed to be besides 'pure cha-ching'? Perhaps when there ARE story elements, involved dialogue, and coherent atmosphere there might be something to clash with? I honestly don't see anything that diminishing a mindless annoyance would clash with. You aren't really trying paint the server as what you want it to be, rather than what it is, are you?
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Post by nicethugbert on Apr 12, 2009 4:57:45 GMT -5
Why don't you ask Lou?
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Post by obregon on Apr 12, 2009 8:28:47 GMT -5
With no humor intended, ask him what? Whether nicethugbert was painting the server as what he wants it to be, rather than what it is? I think the state of the server serves (some humor intended) as the canonical reply to what the server is, no need to bother Lou with that. I think it also serves as the only irrefutable indication of what the server was intended to be, given the different basic directions the server could have gone. Right now, it IS an 'arcadey' server. A good one. That may change, may even take a new direction that I'm unaware of. Until I see some indication of that, however, I'll remain of the opinion that changes/features/etc, which favor 'realism' at the expense of the existing style of gameplay are what clashes. reducing or eliminating mindless annoyances = good. bogging down players with useless minutia like picking up coins, forcing rest intervals, eating breakfast, or using an outhouse, are pointless and actually insulting. <skip on down to 'needless demands' in the following link> www.glassner.com/andrew/writing/gamedesign.htmMy apologies, Lou, but using coin collecting for pacing is just weak, and not even aimed at the actual problem. Stock NWN2 has grievous problems with character balance, and Kaedrin's work multiplies it. (forestmaster, anyone?) If you're unhappy with how players are exploiting builds to quickly rip through the content, making them stop to pick up change doesn't really address the problem.
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Post by Loudent2 on Apr 12, 2009 11:58:21 GMT -5
There *is* a story, but you are correct that it's a pretty superficial one. I'm just not much of a storyteller. There are a few players that have some skill in that area so perhaps we'll see some stronger writing.
But there is a progression and, while random areas exist, not all of them are such. Still, you're rigth in that I do take inspiration for a lot of sources so it can seem totally random.
That said, I've never been one to favor realism over gameplay, but I *do* try to make it "reasonable". I'm not sure why but I have a tendency to offer convienence at a cost. You can avoid zoning to grab the early quests but you have to give up a portion of your gold/xp reward, you can avoid stopping and looting, but you have to give up the loot.
Perhaps this is not a good thing.
As for auto-looting gold, I don't think I have anything against it, it just isn't something that appeals to me to either add or code. Again, I'm not sure why.
Finally, this *is* an action server. It's that way because I like playing with un-restricted builds, I like having shout chats with the entire server and all that jazz, of course people are welcome to Role-play and I think it would be "neat" if we had some roleplaying going on.
Let me chew on this a bit.
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Post by nicethugbert on Apr 12, 2009 15:45:23 GMT -5
I think the state of the server serves (some humor intended) as the canonical reply to what the server is, no need to bother Lou with that. I think it also serves as the only irrefutable indication of what the server was intended to be, given the different basic directions the server could have gone. Right now, it IS an 'arcadey' server. A good one. That may change, may even take a new direction that I'm unaware of. What a pile of bullnuts. Right now, the server is such that you get collection quests and loot corpse to gather resources on a volunteer basis. That is a fact that directly contradicts your wish. Claiming that the "the state of the server serves ... as the canonical reply to what the server is" then calling it arcadey in ignorance of the fact that the server is such that gold is gathered via collection quests and corpse looting on a volunteer basis is entirely disingenuous. I bet you wouldn't have made that statement if Lou had referred to the server as arcadey and defined it in contradiction to your wishes. What's more, mocking my wishes as if you're not arguing your own, what bald faced nonsense from you. =============== I suggest finding other ways to reward toons besides gold. Since the world is resource starved then the economy should be mostly a barter economy, at least south of East Port. I think the opponents should have some stored resources to raid besides gold. Clearly, healing kits and potions would be useful. Even small quantities would help. How about gaining favor with quest givers so that the armorer will make you a nice suit of something? This could be a multi-level quest with better armors at each level. PCs could raid the mines for ore to fashion into weapons and armor to give to LE, or trade, or sell in east port. They could use alchemy to make healing kits and potions. How about a pack animal to carry out the loot? How about clearing a dam so the farmers can irrigate their crops? Clearing the forest of orcs for a bit so firewood can be safely gathered. The outpost theme can be expanded into several outposts to be cleared. Resources increase as each one is cleared.
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Post by ghostguest2a on Apr 12, 2009 16:59:36 GMT -5
Partial quotes by NTB: ===============
I suggest ...blah blah blah...
I think ...blah blah blah...
How about ... blah blah blah...
PCs could ... blah blah blah...
How about ... blah blah blah...
How about ... blah blah blah...
The outpost theme ... blah blah blah...
Ok, how about NTB use Lou's quest creater to make some of these comments into quest?
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Post by Loudent2 on Apr 12, 2009 17:43:20 GMT -5
The format is going to change soon. I would suggest using the plugin version and save it to placeables if you're going to do that.
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Post by shoujo on Apr 12, 2009 19:12:40 GMT -5
What about an auto-gold looter with a penalty similar to the fast quest starting penalty then?
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