[CLASS] Knight Phantom

[mammothtruk]

Did anyone else just review the hell out of this class? I mean its an Eldritch Knight on steroids.

1d6 HP ok but thats fine as a gish.

armored caster! thats right mithral breastplates all around!

20% miss chance + 10' aura of shaken in your boots

+4 AB

full bab progression and 9/10 spell progression

Amazing Powerful folks. Elven Bladesinger/Knight Phantom here I come!

[Loudent2]

I'm lobbying for 1/2 caster progression but bumping the HD up to d8 again.

[dordon]

I don't think it's that exciting. The concealment can be easily duplicated by casting ghostly visage which has a long duration, or by using persistent displacement at higher levels. By virtue of him saying it's once or twice per day, I don't think this effect is permanent either. And the fear aura part of it is ok but not broken in my opinion.

The +4 AB is once/day and 10 rounds.

The best part of the class is Armored Caster, and he didn't go into detail on how he implemented it. He wasn't able to do a proper Armored Caster for blade singer, so it's implemented as a -%spell cast buff. Being able to wear a chain shirt or mithril breastplate is nice, but not broken. And to qualify, you have to take Still Spell, which you'll never use if you're an armored caster.

[shoujo]

I think half caster would be a bit extreme. Most of the perks there are just per day abilities, the miss chance gets overridden by extended/persistent displacement or swiftblade perks and shaken is only -2 AB, saves, skills for 1 round assuming the save is failed.

If it gets half caster progression, I'd probably just take the first 2 levels for armored caster and a caster level.

BS/KP would be redundant I think since the BS already gets reduced ASF in light/medium armor.

[nicethugbert]

I don't see how it's overpowered for much the same reasons already mentioned. Unless, it's overpowered because I suggested the class to Kaedrin, then it's Presidential.

[Beldar]

It has always bugged me that EK didn't have armored caster. It seems like this class addresses that. I don't think it is overpowered - my EK builds take their armor off, buff, and reinstall the armor. This saves that step. I rarely cast offensive spells with my Gish. If I had armored caster this might change, but not by much.

I would probably change my Gish to 4 pali/ 6 sorc/ 10 SWB / 10 KP to take advantage of the armored caster. KP is basically the same as the EK I currently use.

Personally, I think armored caster should be available to EK maybe with still spell as a prereq (since it makes logical sense - to learn to cast spells in armor you have to be able to do still spells). I guess this would defeat the auto-still spell feats, but no one seems to complain about bards plus it would be for EK (who are supposed to be combat wizards).

I add my vote that most of the other features of the class seem duplicative of spells I already cast. I guess the fear aura isn't, but I bet it has a lousy DC (like assassin death attack DC?). The description should be changed to: 5% chance of causing fear or stunning opponents that you're worried about. In many cases the fear aura would be downright inconvenient "Hey, come back here! I am trying to stab you!" Great, I aggro'd the entire area trying to chase down that one feared creature.

Conversely, if spell advancement was 5/10, I don't think I would ever bother with this class. Shoujo's suggestion of a 2 level splash has some merit, but for my Gish build I would have to take 8 more levels in some combination of sorceror (harming bab) or pali (harming casting). I suspect the spreadsheets will tell me that EK is a superior choice over a 5/10 caster KP. If I am really set on casting in armor w/ EK I can take 3 auto still spell feats. Probably I would continue the buff then armor up methodology.

[mammothtruk]

DC for the aura of shaken(not fear MP just a shaken for 1 round) is 10+cha mod+half level I think. so it doesnt suck near as much as the death arrow from arcane archer You might get something to fail that save by the time you have the class.

I would take KP and BS because they both wear light armors and lose their class powers in anything heavier. CHA and INT being the prime stats. Pretty sure Drow fits that bill the best. And why wouldnt you take KP over EK? its got powers AND everything else that EK comes with. The HP isnt an issue at all since your buffed to the heavens with miss chance, mirror images, DR and the like.

[Kaedrin]

The HD was originally d8 but I dropped it down to d6 to match the EK. The conceal buff is a max of 10 rounds at a time, twice a day (4 with the extra feat). The +4 AB (depending on what Lou caps it at) is also 10 rounds max once per day (3 times with the extra feat).

Armored Caster is going to be a -15% asf effect much like the Bladesinger but WILL NOT stack with the Bladesingers armored caster. It boils down to EK with a few casts of ghostly visage/AB buff a few times a day and armored caster vs Combat Casting and Skill Focus (Concentration). And the sucky pre-req feat (which burns two to get martial if you don't splash a fighter type class).

I'm also looking to add (as part of a tweak/cleanup this weekend) a check for the real armored caster and disable the effect if you have it (since it will already correctly do it, and this really only applies to bards/warlocks) but I'll need to test that a bit to make sure it's needed.

The fear DC is 21-35 (+1-15 Cha Mod) at level 10.

Honestly, I can also see stripping out all of the abilities except armored caster (bumping the HD back to d8). That gives it high bab, 9/10 progression, and -15% asf. That gives it d8 HD, -15% asf, and a wasted feat vs Combat Casting and Skill Focus (Concentration).

Still gives it a flavor different than the EK while being slightly better without being overwhelmingly so.

I could always add in the extra class feats as options that can be turned on (and granted via my levelup script based on the cmi_options 2da).

[nicethugbert]

I originally suggested the KP as a replacement for EK epic levels. What I had in mind was [wiz05 or src06]/EK10/KP10/* to get close to 26BAB and 27 caster levels. I don't see why that is a problem. I just wanted an alternative to good ole battle cleric that didn't suck.

[Beldar]

My sorceror build (4 pali/ 6 sorc / 10 swb / 10 ek) gets bab 26 or 27 (can't recall low bab progression) and 23 caster levels (27 w/ practiced caster). I didn't need KP to do that. Of course I have to pull the armor off to avoid a chance of arcane spell fail (I leave it on sometimes for rebuffing and just suffer the fails). KP is definitely superior to EK, but not required to build a non-sucky Gish.