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Post by yyrkoonstyphoon on Mar 31, 2009 16:04:39 GMT -5
I just want to say I think these buggers need some adjustment. I had to respawn over 11 consecutive times on these guys this weekend (it is most gracious that the respawn penalty is not cumulative or I would have been seriously upset). Here is the scenario:
I bind to the eastern barrens obelisk. I get a quest to attack orcs and proceed to do so. I happen to get the attention of a group of regular archers and the archers that guard Captain Vargas. they all pelt me with arrows from range and a kill me rather rapidly. I respawn and before i can rest and buff (the respawn point is a bit awkward for me, so i needed to navigate out a bit, and by the time i finish resting, I have an archer attacking me from range) since i am in combat, cannot use buff rod, i try to apply buffs as more archers approach. I fail to survive and then it gets real bad because as i respawn, they pelt me before i even can do an action. I was unable to do anything but die and it was an expensive process (i used 8 heals in the process because i am stubborn)...
Anyway, I think the problem here is 2 fold:
1) the archers have a perception that is not consistent with the majority of the mod - given i have not been past the east barrens, but their range is to the point where often you cannot engage one in melee without entering the range of 2 or 3 others.
I know the fact that they follow you after respawn is a bug with the SOZ ai (i am pretty sure as i have read it discussed on other pw forums) but I think their perception should be reduced to be consistent with the other mobs in the area. Sorry about complaining but this has me perplexed as to how i can navigate around a pack of other orcs and be ignored but i attract a pack of archers that will follow me everywhere on the map (sometimes they have not begun to shoot yet and i will leave the area to rest and get a beer only to come back and find an archer or 2 followed me back to my rest spot and pelted me to death while i was afk..
2) the respawn point should provide some safety, i.e. maybe there needs to be a door or something. I know i can (and have) attach to a different obelisk, but that seems excessive. I had been escorted to the barrens a week or so ago and just finally figured out how to leave the map yesterday (i know what a noob)...
Anyway, I still love the place, i just find this as inconsistent with the rest of the world as I have explored it.
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Post by Loudent2 on Mar 31, 2009 16:56:51 GMT -5
Actually, their range *is* consistant with the mod. *All* archers share the same perception range. The simple reason is that range is their only advantage. If you close to melee they are at a distinct disadvantage. Moreso than you realize, due to bugs:
a) Prior to SoZ Archers wont' switch from a ranged weapon to a melee weapon in close quarters unless it was a regular mundane weapon (so all those level 16 archers, when they start swinging swords it's a regular iron weapon)
b) Post SoZ but prior to 1.22 Archers wouldn't swap weapons AT ALL. so you got a free attack of opportunity
c) I'm usure if we're back to a or not, but even if everything was fixed up they'd still be whacking at you without the benefit of feats, stats or a shield.
Seriously, what use would archers be if they couldn't attack from range?
I agree, the new mob "sticky" attack is extremely annoying. Not sure what can be done about it. All I can say is, if you find yourself camped at the bindstone, just log off for a few minutes. 2 things will happen: a) if the zone is empty it will completely reset, and b) they should "unsticky" their aggro toward you (and usually they'll start walking back to their haunts within a HB). In the meantime I'll see if I can find some sort of scripting solution to the issue. Unfortunately we're not a campaign so I don't think I can do it with reputation calls.
But, I'll see what I can do.
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Post by cosper123 on Mar 31, 2009 17:41:46 GMT -5
Yeah I don't think they are that big of an issue. The need the large perception because they are archers and that is how they work. Would seem unfair to gimp their range of perception when a player archer can perceive them from far away...it's their advantage as an archer and they'd be quite pointless without the perception.
If the regular archers are really that hard for you, then you didn't stand a chance against vargus and his archers. Most people need a group to defeat Vargus, or they come back and solo him later when they have more levels.
And yeah how things come after you after you have respawned can be annoying. And hey I almost always play a cleric or mage...when I'm in barrenlands I herd and blades/banshee/fireburst/whatever....so when I die like half the zone is headed for me. But you don't need to rest after you respawn, you come back to life fully rested. If you have your buffs on the quickcast wand you should have plenty of time to cast that and quite a few manual buffs if you were over in the orc area.
If I was ever in a situation such as yourself and kept dying and dying I'd do as Lou said and log off for a bit to let the aggro reset. You can also run for the zone line...or sit there as a corpse for a bit while the mobs return to their spawn points (it'll give you a little extra time to make it to the zone or buff).
Anyhow, if you need help killing Vargus just lemmie know I'd be happy to assist.
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Post by Loudent2 on Mar 31, 2009 18:03:14 GMT -5
heck with Vargus, I took him out with an avasculate and tensers.
I need help with Gutslag. I can't seem to damage him enough. Of course, that was a few levels ago, maybe I can take him now.
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Post by cosper123 on Mar 31, 2009 18:40:31 GMT -5
Yeah Gutslag is a whole other can of worms. However if the normal archers are an issue then he stands no change whatsoever against Vargus's archers. I personally wouldn't have bothered with avasculate and tensors...quicker to just blow everything up with greater fireburst  |
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Post by Beldar on Mar 31, 2009 18:56:21 GMT -5
Many of my characters find Vargus and his debuffing axe to be more of a hassle than Gutslag (long protracted fight of two guys standing around unable to hit each other).
Would it be possible to make the respawn point somehow in a safe area? I have had issues where my level 23 wizard has logged in under attack. At this point he has no spells and has to club the dingos (heh, heh) to death with his staff. This is not an easy task for him, low bab and all. I imagine if he logged in after someone else had drawn archers to the area, he would just die. This is particularly problematic since he has now reached levels where xp debt is not capped. I hate having to log out and log in with a melee character to clean the area out.
On a related note, I think I may have exploited Gutslag recently. My archer was using her usual kiting tactic and got over on the west edge of the map near the red line and started shooting him at the edge of her perception. I don't know if he just couldn't figure out where the arrows were coming from (I know eldritch spear could/can be used this way), or if there is some sort of no fly zone over there, but she was able to turn him into a pin cushion while he just stood there looking dumb even for an orc. I mention this exploit because I could see something similar being done if the respawn is made safe - maybe make it inside a tent (i.e. transition separating the player from the bad guys)?
I think the archers should be able to work just like a PC archer. I have never really had any issues with them being unfair. The priests have given me way more debt than the archers. Still, the hunt you down while you are trying to buff problem is a serious issue.
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Post by cosper123 on Mar 31, 2009 19:24:21 GMT -5
Ugg anything but another transition. I'd rather the solution be do nothing than to have another transition. Just make the area screwy like that one area in mirh where the npcs weird out and can't attack. Oh yeah, then fix that one area in mirh because it's annoying |
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Post by yyrkoonstyphoon on Apr 1, 2009 6:31:57 GMT -5
I will agree that all archers have a long range, but i think in this area in particular, it should be reduced just a tad. I have experinced the log in under fire thing too, where someone else had been wacked and that is a secondary issue. i guess Ihave to bind to a lower area nad make the run every time.
oh, and what level does the exp penalty 'uncap'?
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Post by mammothtruk on Apr 1, 2009 11:05:02 GMT -5
put the bind stone inside a gated fence that blocks perception. problem solved, but in the end the AI needs fixed.
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Post by Loudent2 on Apr 1, 2009 12:11:24 GMT -5
oh, and what level does the exp penalty 'uncap'? 21.....at some point (somewhere in the mid to high 20s, don't recall exactly) you get both debt and xp loss. At 30 I think it might be all xp loss. (I'd have to check what I did). |
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Post by yyrkoonstyphoon on Apr 1, 2009 13:30:45 GMT -5
oh, and what level does the exp penalty 'uncap'? 21.....at some point (somewhere in the mid to high 20s, don't recall exactly) you get both debt and xp loss. At 30 I think it might be all xp loss. (I'd have to check what I did). from the main site: A death system that puts you into XP debt rather than XP Loss um, that should be fixed. this is false advertising ;D I would hate to find this out by accident, but i guess it is not as horrific as exp is pretty fast here, but really that is something players should know up front. If i had a lvl 30 lose all exp on a rescue mission (because in thoery at 30 i have no risk any longer), i would be pretty upset. |
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Post by Loudent2 on Apr 1, 2009 13:47:23 GMT -5
A death system that puts you into XP debt rather than XP Loss um, that should be fixed. this is false advertising ;D I suppose you're right. It should be edited Oh, no that came out wrong. you don't lose all XP at level 30, just that the penalty is is not divided among debt and loss some 1-20 penalty is 100% debt capped, 21-26(?) it's 100% debt and uncapped, 27-28(?) it's 50% debt, 50% loss and uncapped. At 30(?) it's 100% loss (cap has no meaning). You're still penalized the same 100xp per level. Just that it's being deducted from xp rather than debt (debt has no meaning at 30) |
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Post by yyrkoonstyphoon on Apr 1, 2009 15:11:18 GMT -5
OK, thanks for the info. I am a stickler about web content = how it works in game.
Given the amount of exp you can earn (again based on the website explanation) at the higher levels, you will be getting more than 100 exp a kill, so having to kill a number of mobs < your current level is not worthy of complaint, however, it is worthy of mention.
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Post by Beldar on Apr 1, 2009 15:53:43 GMT -5
I think it uncaps at 20 not 21. I know admission to epic spiders and epic Mirj is granted at 20. I might have faulty memory, but I am pretty sure one of my archers got stacking debt at level 20 playing the field. Of course, that was a while ago so it could have changed.
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Post by Loudent2 on Apr 1, 2009 16:22:02 GMT -5
You might be right. don't have the the toolset here. Will look at it tonight and update the web-content.
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