Epic Blood Spiders Sneak attack bug?

[Beldar]

My archer, AC 41 with uncanny dodge, can be hit by an attack roll of 23 by an epic blood spider who "sneak attacks' me even after I have launched a sneak attack on it. I have HiPS, sneak attack them, and win the initiative - how are they sneak attacking me?

I don't think monsters that have been spotted should be able to sneak attack an opponent that is actively engaging them in combat. They only get the sneak attack on their first two attacks so it eventually starts working as expected.

Is my negligible AC due to the uncanny dodge bug? I think so. I think I should only lose my DEX bonus to my AC (12). If this was the case, my ac would drop to 29 and the 23 would still miss. Even if I also lost my dodge bonus (5). I would expect my ac would be 24. I guess I am also losing my 2 tumble ac as well?

My 41 AC is composed of the following (yes, I know I should farm a natural AC ammy, but I have been lazy):
10 Base
12 DEX
2 Tumble
1 Luck of Heroes
5 Deflection
5 Dodge
5 Magic Armor
1 Astral Rodent

Based on getting hit by a 23 attack roll, I think that I am losing DEX, Tumble, and Dodge AC when "flat-footed" even though I have uncanny dodge.

The wiki description for flat-footed says, "A flat-footed creature loses its Dexterity bonus to Armor Class (if any) and cannot make attacks of opportunity." It doesn't say I lose the dodge and tumble AC. Is the wiki description wrong?

[septic]

Uncanny Dodge does not work and never has to my knowledge. Being flatfooted also makes you lose your dodge AC (and AC from Wis if you are a Monk), not sure about tumble but apparently you do lose it.

[shoujo]

I believe the spiders also spawn in invis. One of my retired alts used see invis vs the spiders and never had a problem with sneak attacks unless it came from flanking.

[dordon]

This is a bug in the engine I think. I actually posted about this on the official forums back in November in one of the big HIPS threads, but no one responded to me. *sniff*

Here's what I said:

Scenario:
PC is hiding and is undetected
NPC is hiding but is detected

PC sees the NPC with the transparency effect. PC sneaks up to the NPC and attacks. PC gets sneak attacks for their first attack flurry because the mob is flat footed, but the NPC gets a 50% concealment bonus making the PC miss more often than they should. The NPC then immediately counter attacks, treating the PC as flat footed and getting sneak attacks, but the PC is not treated as having concealment.

Result: When two stealthed creatures attack each other, it's better to not attack first.


I was seeing this behavior using my rogue on the third level of the orc tower.

[Loudent2]

All the spiders are able to do this unless you have a see invis type effect. Its not something I did intentionally, it just seems to be the way hidden/invised creatures seem to operate.

[cosper123]

Didn't they used to cast web? Haven't noticed em cast web in awhile. Or maybe it was just the queen...or bez. Not sure, it could have been seige or wett following me around casting web and messing with me or something, of that I'm sure.

[wettshoes]

Mar 31, 2009 9:54:40 GMT -5 cosper123 said:

it could have been seige or wett following me around casting web and messing with me or something

hmmm . . . thats a great idea! another good reason to start a HIPS mage

As far a spiders casting web I don't recall the epic spiders ever doing that . . . maybe the non-epics did at some point, but i cant remember. . .

[cosper123]

Yeah the epics haven't...I could have sworn the non epics did though at some point. I was actually happy at one point to get that one cloak that made you immune to web, back before I figured out 99% of all you'll never need comes off the heoric skelli.