Post by shoujo on Nov 12, 2008 1:52:17 GMT -5
For the most part, I don't think there's a need for more pre-epic areas.
Some of them could use some tweaking IMO though. Like the waterfall, forest, and mines are all essentially the same areas with cosmetic changes and different crafting material drops. Could do something like make the kobs caster friendly because they're tied to the mage/priest store, orcs rogue friendly cause they're tied to the archer/leather store, and the mines fighter friendly cause they're tied to the armor/weapon store.
There's really only one pre-epic level range where I was starving for XP and that was between Mirj/East Barrens and the Gianthome. Part of that's due to build issues though. There were a few levels in my teens where my character really sucked.
As a general observation, I'd say AC/defense (concealment, kill from extreme range, HiPS, control) and high AB are pretty essential when it comes to getting physical. Those that don't have either are pretty screwed when it comes to soloing. As an aside, this is partly what I like about the server. Too often servers have totally dumbed down melee spawns.
I'd also like to see more linked spawns. Think they only show up in the waterfall, mines, forest, giant home, and a tiny bit at the end of the Hall of Fire. Would spice fights up, might even make mage crowd control spells worthwhile.
All my observations are based on playing meleers by the way, so please keep that in mind
Edit: A 14 fighter/bard 1/RDD and a 24 bard 7/RDD 10/cleric 1/SB 6 to be more specific.
Possible issues:
Outposts - I've never used them to level for some reason. I don't know why. I've never even bothered trying to farm them.
Outpost well - Only visited there to farm the troll for a full set of regen gear which I swap in and out as needed.
Unrest - Just visit for quests and boss farming while waiting for the spider to respawn. Everything has DR, making them a bit of a hassle to whack compared to the other zones available at that level range. Worst offenders are the Unrest 2 vamps with their 10 DR. Those have decent AC too if I recall, really making them a bit of a hassle.
Orc Tower - Death magic and traps that hurt like hell, a boss with high AC and SR.
Hall of Fire - Being a drow and RDD, the fire spells weren't a problem, but without a little elemental protection, would guess most PCs would be hurting a lot. The elementals hit pretty hard (about 30 per hit) if not often. The tieflings don't hit that hard I think, but they do come with 28 AB, which can be a bit tough for some builds. Compared to giants which mostly have about 23 AB with some ragers and heroics hitting 29-31, that's pretty high, but think it's pretty reasonable at that level with the proper gear.
Also seems like the XP is all over the place. There's 12 XP elementals, 71 XP tieflings, 36 XP elementals. I only visited the area at about 20-21 because I'd heard the exit was missing.
Wailing Caverns - Serious AB increase of 10 points (+39) compared to the last area combined with undead immunities, DR to a bunch of elements, and high AC of low to mid 50s would be my guess. Even the battlefield spawns for a 24th level character only reach about 35 AB and have far lower AC, no DR are far easier than the skellies. Most definitely doesn't belong in the same league as the Western Barrens for most builds.
Areas that get a lot of repeat visits:
These areas generally had good XP and/or boss loot, no death magic, and were trap free.
Mines, Forest, Waterfall - Zalanthar sticks, essences, mithral, boss loot
Chode Burrow - Boss loot, good XP
Spiders - Boss loot (rapier is excellent for twinking), good XP
Unrest - Boss loot (some useful caster stuff)
Mirj - Boss loot (adamantine, rodent charm, scabbard of blessing) good XP, fast respawn.
East Barrens - Good XP, nice place to herd and nuke from what I've seen, the thug quest requires repeat visits lol Easier than the Wrath Mountains
Gianthome - Boss loot, good XP
West Barrens - Excellent XP. Spawns that often hit for less than giants and don't hit as often, and give more XP. Sign me up. Kitties and pixies in particular have an excellent risk-reward ratio.
Wailing Caverns - Boss loot (the best stuff except for the d**n +7 will save ammy and +6 con ammy), excellent XP depending on class
War Zone - Great fun for the most part. Different style and goal spices things up. Random drops usually suck, but I've gotten 3 items worth wearing and a few worth holding onto.
Specific spawns:
Dervishes - When I'm out for maximum XP gain, don't see much of a reason to fight them. The barb/FBs can pack a nasty punch, the warlocks would really screw over something without concealment or SR. There's a cleric or something, but that wasn't too memorable.
Elite Vampire Guards - Or whatever the things over at Unrest 2 are. They hit hard, have good AC, and 10 unbeatable DR. There are squishier targets to smack for the same XP. No reason for a repeat visit. They also level drain if I recall, making them even nastier because lesser restoration pots don't work vs level drain.
Oggog's - Bare handed, raging giants. The rage makes them tougher than giant nobles, but they provide less XP. I just avoided them except when I was going after the nobles or heroics.
Golems - Not a problem for a meleer, but magic immunity, sneak immunity kills off two archetypes right there.
One reason why an archmage doesn't bother with the place could be because the golems are magic immune, but another reason could be because he's an archmage and just has better things to do than nuke some puny golems. He's off visiting some other plane of existence or something
Can still make the area tough for mages without the immunity I think though. Like have each golem have SR, but based on type have immunity to specific elements, resistances to others, requiring mages to prep a bunch of different spells in order to succeed. Or give them immunity, but make the immunity come from spell mantles so that a mage can use breach and dispels to temporarily 'suppress' the effect. Still a hassle, but not virtually impossible without going physical.
Anything with death magic/level drain - Level drain's a pain to cure now. Need a saint's blood pearl, restoration or better, or a cleric. Death magic's just one of those risk reward ratio things. High risk, low reward. Just not worth it when there are other death magic free zones to earn XP.
Some of them could use some tweaking IMO though. Like the waterfall, forest, and mines are all essentially the same areas with cosmetic changes and different crafting material drops. Could do something like make the kobs caster friendly because they're tied to the mage/priest store, orcs rogue friendly cause they're tied to the archer/leather store, and the mines fighter friendly cause they're tied to the armor/weapon store.
There's really only one pre-epic level range where I was starving for XP and that was between Mirj/East Barrens and the Gianthome. Part of that's due to build issues though. There were a few levels in my teens where my character really sucked.
As a general observation, I'd say AC/defense (concealment, kill from extreme range, HiPS, control) and high AB are pretty essential when it comes to getting physical. Those that don't have either are pretty screwed when it comes to soloing. As an aside, this is partly what I like about the server. Too often servers have totally dumbed down melee spawns.
I'd also like to see more linked spawns. Think they only show up in the waterfall, mines, forest, giant home, and a tiny bit at the end of the Hall of Fire. Would spice fights up, might even make mage crowd control spells worthwhile.
All my observations are based on playing meleers by the way, so please keep that in mind
Edit: A 14 fighter/bard 1/RDD and a 24 bard 7/RDD 10/cleric 1/SB 6 to be more specific.
Possible issues:
Outposts - I've never used them to level for some reason. I don't know why. I've never even bothered trying to farm them.
Outpost well - Only visited there to farm the troll for a full set of regen gear which I swap in and out as needed.
Unrest - Just visit for quests and boss farming while waiting for the spider to respawn. Everything has DR, making them a bit of a hassle to whack compared to the other zones available at that level range. Worst offenders are the Unrest 2 vamps with their 10 DR. Those have decent AC too if I recall, really making them a bit of a hassle.
Orc Tower - Death magic and traps that hurt like hell, a boss with high AC and SR.
Hall of Fire - Being a drow and RDD, the fire spells weren't a problem, but without a little elemental protection, would guess most PCs would be hurting a lot. The elementals hit pretty hard (about 30 per hit) if not often. The tieflings don't hit that hard I think, but they do come with 28 AB, which can be a bit tough for some builds. Compared to giants which mostly have about 23 AB with some ragers and heroics hitting 29-31, that's pretty high, but think it's pretty reasonable at that level with the proper gear.
Also seems like the XP is all over the place. There's 12 XP elementals, 71 XP tieflings, 36 XP elementals. I only visited the area at about 20-21 because I'd heard the exit was missing.
Wailing Caverns - Serious AB increase of 10 points (+39) compared to the last area combined with undead immunities, DR to a bunch of elements, and high AC of low to mid 50s would be my guess. Even the battlefield spawns for a 24th level character only reach about 35 AB and have far lower AC, no DR are far easier than the skellies. Most definitely doesn't belong in the same league as the Western Barrens for most builds.
Areas that get a lot of repeat visits:
These areas generally had good XP and/or boss loot, no death magic, and were trap free.
Mines, Forest, Waterfall - Zalanthar sticks, essences, mithral, boss loot
Chode Burrow - Boss loot, good XP
Spiders - Boss loot (rapier is excellent for twinking), good XP
Unrest - Boss loot (some useful caster stuff)
Mirj - Boss loot (adamantine, rodent charm, scabbard of blessing) good XP, fast respawn.
East Barrens - Good XP, nice place to herd and nuke from what I've seen, the thug quest requires repeat visits lol Easier than the Wrath Mountains
Gianthome - Boss loot, good XP
West Barrens - Excellent XP. Spawns that often hit for less than giants and don't hit as often, and give more XP. Sign me up. Kitties and pixies in particular have an excellent risk-reward ratio.
Wailing Caverns - Boss loot (the best stuff except for the d**n +7 will save ammy and +6 con ammy), excellent XP depending on class
War Zone - Great fun for the most part. Different style and goal spices things up. Random drops usually suck, but I've gotten 3 items worth wearing and a few worth holding onto.
Specific spawns:
Dervishes - When I'm out for maximum XP gain, don't see much of a reason to fight them. The barb/FBs can pack a nasty punch, the warlocks would really screw over something without concealment or SR. There's a cleric or something, but that wasn't too memorable.
Elite Vampire Guards - Or whatever the things over at Unrest 2 are. They hit hard, have good AC, and 10 unbeatable DR. There are squishier targets to smack for the same XP. No reason for a repeat visit. They also level drain if I recall, making them even nastier because lesser restoration pots don't work vs level drain.
Oggog's - Bare handed, raging giants. The rage makes them tougher than giant nobles, but they provide less XP. I just avoided them except when I was going after the nobles or heroics.
Golems - Not a problem for a meleer, but magic immunity, sneak immunity kills off two archetypes right there.
One reason why an archmage doesn't bother with the place could be because the golems are magic immune, but another reason could be because he's an archmage and just has better things to do than nuke some puny golems. He's off visiting some other plane of existence or something
Can still make the area tough for mages without the immunity I think though. Like have each golem have SR, but based on type have immunity to specific elements, resistances to others, requiring mages to prep a bunch of different spells in order to succeed. Or give them immunity, but make the immunity come from spell mantles so that a mage can use breach and dispels to temporarily 'suppress' the effect. Still a hassle, but not virtually impossible without going physical.
Anything with death magic/level drain - Level drain's a pain to cure now. Need a saint's blood pearl, restoration or better, or a cleric. Death magic's just one of those risk reward ratio things. High risk, low reward. Just not worth it when there are other death magic free zones to earn XP.