|
|
Post by nicethugbert on Jul 24, 2009 22:28:30 GMT -5
I have a fgt06/WM07 that I'm progressing towards DwD10 and EDRIII. With 20 con and +4 con ammy he has a good chunk of HP, ~221 IIRC. He's not at cleric levels of PWNAGE but the elevated HP definitely contributes to his survival and it's a feature other build types do not have. Like buffs, it does require quite a bit of rest usage to survive. So, I think giving fighters more HP would be a way to make them more survivable, maintain their distinctive play style, and keep them proper within LDOA's style. Plus it would be easy to implement with Epic Toughness or custom feats, etc.
|
|
|
|
Post by mammothtruk on Jul 25, 2009 1:28:19 GMT -5
I totally agree with this idea. HP is the bread and butter of a fighter. sustained damage and HP are their high quality traits and HP boosting would give them a lot more to live for.
A line of fighter only regen feats, fighter only HP feats, and a line of fighter only AC improving feats. Being they get loads of feats this would give them the edge. Mind you they shouldnt be on par with buffs only that they are always on and cant be dispelled making them consistent.
|
|
|
|
Post by Beldar on Jul 25, 2009 2:09:43 GMT -5
By fighter, are you lumping other melee classes (barbarian and paladin for example) in as well? Both of those classes would benefit although they do not get the numerous feats that fighter gets.
Hit points will help early, but the low fighter AC means that they get destroyed at high levels regardless. In Mirh, my melee characters take hundreds of points of damage per round. 10,000 hit points might give them a fighting chance, if they could regenerate reasonably quickly.
Good suggestion though. More HP would definitely help close the gap without making fighter deviate far from its current form.
|
|
|
|
Post by nicethugbert on Jul 25, 2009 5:59:59 GMT -5
Yes, I was thinking of the other fighter derivatives, but, I'm not focusing on them as I haven't got a detailed system in mind, nor do I play them very much. I think the idea has merit even if only for some levels. I'm not sure how far to go with it or if it will help them survive Mirh. Since we can have more dungeons, I don't really care for any one dungeon or other being survivable to any one class. If for the time being, LDOA is a motley assortment of dungeons, and some of those dungeons are even impossible, I don't care. It'll get straightened out sooner or later and in the mean time there are areas to play in.
It's just a rough idea that I expect Lou to polish if he chooses to implement it.
EDIT0: There are many ways to go with this. It could be small increments added to the PC's hide, or big chunks. You could obtain them via repeatable quests. They could be temporary but long duration. There can be a mix of long, short, and permanent duration. They could be dungeon dependent. Many possibilities and there seems to be room for flexible, simple, and elegant solutions which Lou tends to prefer. It's not necessary to get locked into one rigid solution. You can make a game out of getting the HP buffs then going into tougher dungeons. That takes time which is another element Lou uses.
EDIT1: There could be a spirit meter type thing in reverse.
|
|
|
|
Post by mammothtruk on Jul 25, 2009 8:45:24 GMT -5
I was more along the lines of feats being they could stack and require each other. That way level dipping isnt a problem. And they should be fighter only in the way that other feats are in the fighter feat selection. This way making only your free feats being able to take them outside of being a fighter giving other classes limited access,but never enough to stack without losing large amounts of other feats.
|
|
|
|
Post by nicethugbert on Jul 25, 2009 9:04:17 GMT -5
Barbarians are another good candidate for increased HP. I think they should get even more HP.
|
|
|
|
Post by dordon on Jul 25, 2009 9:30:38 GMT -5
I'm not sure this is a good idea, just throwing it out there...
One of contributing factors to the 'AC is king' phenomenon is the relative scarcity of healing items. Modifying the economy such that its possible to acquire and use a greater number of healing, and other consumables, helps melee types like fighters and rogues much more than the buffers.
|
|
|
|
Post by nicethugbert on Jul 25, 2009 9:54:13 GMT -5
Yes, but, healing items are basically HP. So lowering the cost of healing items is another way to provide more HP. I don't object to lowering the cost of healing kits. I have long advocated greater reliance on consumables, which HP are. You don't buy them, for the most part, but they do run out and need to be replenished.
I don't have a problem with AC is King. But, providing more HP is another angle that is typically ignored but fits the server as it currently is.
But, I wouldn't give rogues any HP feats. It would erode distinctions between classes.
|
|
|
|
Post by mammothtruk on Jul 25, 2009 14:30:17 GMT -5
Rogues need items. They have a slew of feats. More and more as K puts them together. Epic feat that allows them to add sneak damage even when crit immune. they need +sneak items and some + sneak dice items. maybe some feat that if they have enough sneak they can be invisible for X minutes X times a day.
|
|
|
|
Post by siegelayer on Jul 25, 2009 18:30:31 GMT -5
Didn't I have this idea a week ago and you argued against me?  |
|
|
|
Post by nicethugbert on Jul 25, 2009 18:49:14 GMT -5
Not unless you pulled my hair. I don't remember anyone asking for custom HP feats for fighters. I remember people b i t c h i n g about clerics then asking for the usual non-timered POWAHZ, i.e., haste, regen, +enhancement, etc., because when one class is called OP but it's POWAHZ are on a timer and dispelable then the only way to redress that "imbalance" is to give another class permanent POWAHZ. It's only justice, ya know punitive damages and all that.
All I'm asking for is more HP somehow. Not sure how much or what delivery device, nor opposed to timered HP, just whatever Lou thinks fits the LDOA system, as a start at least.
EDIT: There is also a crafting angle to this. Small amounts of HP on various items can add up. Throw in HP feats, timered HP buffs, area HP offsets, etc. and there is a lot of room to manage the situation.
|
|
|
|
Post by Beldar on Jul 25, 2009 21:32:41 GMT -5
The thing is, I don't see HP really being all that helpful for fighters in the epic levels (unless there are silly quantities). And I don't have any difficulty leveling fighters until they reach the epic levels. Granted I farm gear for my fighters that they cannot possibly obtain for themselves with other builds. In I disagreeessment, fighters are fine until they run out of epic golem xp (and really, who wants to get all of their xp exclusively from golems???).
|
|
|
|
Post by nicethugbert on Jul 25, 2009 21:42:39 GMT -5
There we have it. The need to twink and then the futility of twinking later on is telling. Silly HP it is then.
|
|
|
|
Post by Beldar on Jul 25, 2009 22:42:33 GMT -5
I don't think any reasonable amount of HP is going to let you farm the skelly boss. That is what I have to use other characters to farm the gear of.
|
|
|
|
Post by mammothtruk on Jul 26, 2009 1:21:38 GMT -5
thread derailing.... always with the derailing and decent into squabbling...
thing is that the standard HP feats that stack in D&D are very weak. But they lead into some powerful HP in epic. should be able to get something like 800HP on a straight fighter. Also they have weapon trick feats that allow you to do more with your damage than just hurt things. Like slowing them. or knocking them out. or a very hard and slow path to having a chance to kill them. There are feats that mimic spell buffs to a lesser degree that work all the time. Some based on moving 50 that give 20% concealment. others that are based on size that give you AB and dmg. some that are based on your skill with a weapon allowing you to stun and when stunned you have your coop de grace. Due to the amount of crit immune mobs I would suggest the feat path that works to add damage even when they are immune. Some that are ranger favored enemy based could work. Others that are based on weapon material vs race. yet others still for some of the psionic based classes that just rock all over. Psiblade with feats anyone?
|
|
